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	<title>Comments on: Is evolution really scientific?- Reasoning from the Scriptures?</title>
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		<title>By: achtung_heiss</title>
		<link>http://www.soundrecordingservices.co.uk/sound-recording-london/is-evolution-really-scientific-reasoning-from-the-scriptures/comment-page-1#comment-182</link>
		<dc:creator>achtung_heiss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2007 18:04:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>This &quot;question&quot; is copied in its entirety from pages 121-124 of &quot;Reasoning from the Scriptures&quot;, a publication of Jehovah&#039;s Witnesses.

Of course, true science harmonizes with the bible.

Learn more:
http://watchtower.org/e/19960122/
http://watchtower.org/e/20020608/article_01.htm
http://watchtower.org/e/20040622/article_03.htm
http://watchtower.org/e/20000922/article_02.htm
http://watchtower.org/e/20040122a/article_01.htm
http://watchtower.org/e/t13/
http://watchtower.org/e/20001008/article_03.htm
http://watchtower.org/e/20000122/article_02.htm
http://watchtower.org/e/20001008/article_02.htm
http://watchtower.org/e/lmn/article_04.htm
http://watchtower.org/e/19960122/
http://watchtower.org/e/jt/&lt;br&gt;&lt;b&gt;References : &lt;/b&gt;&lt;br&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This &quot;question&quot; is copied in its entirety from pages 121-124 of &quot;Reasoning from the Scriptures&quot;, a publication of Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses.</p>
<p>Of course, true science harmonizes with the bible.</p>
<p>Learn more:<br />
<a href="http://watchtower.org/e/19960122/" rel="nofollow">http://watchtower.org/e/19960122/</a><br />
<a href="http://watchtower.org/e/20020608/article_01.htm" rel="nofollow">http://watchtower.org/e/20020608/article_01.htm</a><br />
<a href="http://watchtower.org/e/20040622/article_03.htm" rel="nofollow">http://watchtower.org/e/20040622/article_03.htm</a><br />
<a href="http://watchtower.org/e/20000922/article_02.htm" rel="nofollow">http://watchtower.org/e/20000922/article_02.htm</a><br />
<a href="http://watchtower.org/e/20040122a/article_01.htm" rel="nofollow">http://watchtower.org/e/20040122a/article_01.htm</a><br />
<a href="http://watchtower.org/e/t13/" rel="nofollow">http://watchtower.org/e/t13/</a><br />
<a href="http://watchtower.org/e/20001008/article_03.htm" rel="nofollow">http://watchtower.org/e/20001008/article_03.htm</a><br />
<a href="http://watchtower.org/e/20000122/article_02.htm" rel="nofollow">http://watchtower.org/e/20000122/article_02.htm</a><br />
<a href="http://watchtower.org/e/20001008/article_02.htm" rel="nofollow">http://watchtower.org/e/20001008/article_02.htm</a><br />
<a href="http://watchtower.org/e/lmn/article_04.htm" rel="nofollow">http://watchtower.org/e/lmn/article_04.htm</a><br />
<a href="http://watchtower.org/e/19960122/" rel="nofollow">http://watchtower.org/e/19960122/</a><br />
<a href="http://watchtower.org/e/jt/" rel="nofollow">http://watchtower.org/e/jt/</a><br /><b>References : </b></p>
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		<title>By: crazy_ivan1986</title>
		<link>http://www.soundrecordingservices.co.uk/sound-recording-london/is-evolution-really-scientific-reasoning-from-the-scriptures/comment-page-1#comment-181</link>
		<dc:creator>crazy_ivan1986</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2007 04:40:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.soundrecordingservices.co.uk/sound-recording-london/is-evolution-really-scientific-reasoning-from-the-scriptures#comment-181</guid>
		<description>&quot;Creationism claims to be a fact and always has been although the facts have had to be changed in small measure over the ensuing millennia to suit contemporary knowledge. Creationism also leaves an awful lot out of the equation.

All things bright and beautiful, All cancers great and small. Is that what is taught to kids?&quot;

incorrect, what is it that Creationism has left out. You talk about not explaining cancers, and all things bright and beautiful. Cancers are a result of sin entering the world according to Creationism. And if you read up on it, it does actually say that &quot;All things bright and beautiful&quot; were created, especially the stars&lt;br&gt;&lt;b&gt;References : &lt;/b&gt;&lt;br&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;Creationism claims to be a fact and always has been although the facts have had to be changed in small measure over the ensuing millennia to suit contemporary knowledge. Creationism also leaves an awful lot out of the equation.</p>
<p>All things bright and beautiful, All cancers great and small. Is that what is taught to kids?&quot;</p>
<p>incorrect, what is it that Creationism has left out. You talk about not explaining cancers, and all things bright and beautiful. Cancers are a result of sin entering the world according to Creationism. And if you read up on it, it does actually say that &quot;All things bright and beautiful&quot; were created, especially the stars<br /><b>References : </b></p>
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		<title>By: Joachin Murrieta</title>
		<link>http://www.soundrecordingservices.co.uk/sound-recording-london/is-evolution-really-scientific-reasoning-from-the-scriptures/comment-page-1#comment-180</link>
		<dc:creator>Joachin Murrieta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Aug 2007 15:22:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.soundrecordingservices.co.uk/sound-recording-london/is-evolution-really-scientific-reasoning-from-the-scriptures#comment-180</guid>
		<description>You bible thumpers never give up do you?

Evolution is based on science: The bible story of creation is a fable meant for illiterates 4000 years ago.  Seems a lot of people want to stay that way.

There seems to be little question that someone(something) we call God created all that is in the universe about 13 billion years ago.  The big argument seems to be as to when God stopped messing with the universe and let things develop on their own.  I believe it was 13 billion years ago.  I see NO &quot;divine&quot; intervention in anything that has developed since then.  I prefer to believe what I can see and test rather than believe in some old book that should have been burned along with the Koran and all other religious nonsense.&lt;br&gt;&lt;b&gt;References : &lt;/b&gt;&lt;br&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You bible thumpers never give up do you?</p>
<p>Evolution is based on science: The bible story of creation is a fable meant for illiterates 4000 years ago.  Seems a lot of people want to stay that way.</p>
<p>There seems to be little question that someone(something) we call God created all that is in the universe about 13 billion years ago.  The big argument seems to be as to when God stopped messing with the universe and let things develop on their own.  I believe it was 13 billion years ago.  I see NO &quot;divine&quot; intervention in anything that has developed since then.  I prefer to believe what I can see and test rather than believe in some old book that should have been burned along with the Koran and all other religious nonsense.<br /><b>References : </b></p>
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		<title>By: asgspifs</title>
		<link>http://www.soundrecordingservices.co.uk/sound-recording-london/is-evolution-really-scientific-reasoning-from-the-scriptures/comment-page-1#comment-179</link>
		<dc:creator>asgspifs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Aug 2007 15:02:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.soundrecordingservices.co.uk/sound-recording-london/is-evolution-really-scientific-reasoning-from-the-scriptures#comment-179</guid>
		<description>It seems that so many people don&#039;t understand science...

Yes evolution is scientific.  Your description of the scientific method is not complete.  This is not the only way in which science progresses.  Some theories (like evolution, the big bang, plate tectonics) are about phenomenon that occur over very large time scales, so long that they are difficult or impossible to literally observe in a human lifetime or reproduce in a lab.  What we observe and measure are the effects of the process.  We make these observations from a wide range of scientific disciplines (paleontology, archeology, microbiology, genetics, behavioral psychology, animal physiology, etc.) and the best possible theory that explains all of the observed effects in all of these scientific fields is ... evolution (descent with modification - gradual change in form and function through time due to environmental pressures).

Having said that, there have been a few cases where we have actually been able to observe evolution in action.  A perfect, recent, example of this is how the increased use of antibacterial soaps (due to people&#039;s insecurity about germs) has led to increased populations of bacteria that are resistant to these antibacterial materials.

Science progresses most often by proving itself wrong - not by proving itself right.  Evolution is science b/c it can be proved wrong - only no one has been able to do this.  No observations have been made that don&#039;t fit the evolutionary model.
This is the opposite of religious / supernatural ideas, which can not be proved wrong b/c they are believed to be revealed truths and are completely closed to the possibility of ... evolution.

BTW, &quot;Reasoning from the scriptures&quot; is a contradiction.

The rest of your argument is flawed b/c your doing nothing but taking quotes from some scientists out of context.  And even if you weren&#039;t doing this, this is still not an argument ageist the truth of evolution.&lt;br&gt;&lt;b&gt;References : &lt;/b&gt;&lt;br&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems that so many people don&#39;t understand science&#8230;</p>
<p>Yes evolution is scientific.  Your description of the scientific method is not complete.  This is not the only way in which science progresses.  Some theories (like evolution, the big bang, plate tectonics) are about phenomenon that occur over very large time scales, so long that they are difficult or impossible to literally observe in a human lifetime or reproduce in a lab.  What we observe and measure are the effects of the process.  We make these observations from a wide range of scientific disciplines (paleontology, archeology, microbiology, genetics, behavioral psychology, animal physiology, etc.) and the best possible theory that explains all of the observed effects in all of these scientific fields is &#8230; evolution (descent with modification &#8211; gradual change in form and function through time due to environmental pressures).</p>
<p>Having said that, there have been a few cases where we have actually been able to observe evolution in action.  A perfect, recent, example of this is how the increased use of antibacterial soaps (due to people&#39;s insecurity about germs) has led to increased populations of bacteria that are resistant to these antibacterial materials.</p>
<p>Science progresses most often by proving itself wrong &#8211; not by proving itself right.  Evolution is science b/c it can be proved wrong &#8211; only no one has been able to do this.  No observations have been made that don&#39;t fit the evolutionary model.<br />
This is the opposite of religious / supernatural ideas, which can not be proved wrong b/c they are believed to be revealed truths and are completely closed to the possibility of &#8230; evolution.</p>
<p>BTW, &quot;Reasoning from the scriptures&quot; is a contradiction.</p>
<p>The rest of your argument is flawed b/c your doing nothing but taking quotes from some scientists out of context.  And even if you weren&#39;t doing this, this is still not an argument ageist the truth of evolution.<br /><b>References : </b></p>
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		<title>By: Gwenilynd</title>
		<link>http://www.soundrecordingservices.co.uk/sound-recording-london/is-evolution-really-scientific-reasoning-from-the-scriptures/comment-page-1#comment-178</link>
		<dc:creator>Gwenilynd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Aug 2007 14:44:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.soundrecordingservices.co.uk/sound-recording-london/is-evolution-really-scientific-reasoning-from-the-scriptures#comment-178</guid>
		<description>You went on-line and looked for a bunch of people to tell you what to hear. Most of the quotes you have are from the 80&#039;s. The theories can seem to be based on faith if you don&#039;t understand the math and science behind them. They are fairly abstract concepts but no one is claiming that they are fact. Just because all the details are unknown does not make a theory untrue it just means no one has figured it out yet. That&#039;s how science works when we have a way to explain it we do, until then we don&#039;t know. 
As for the fossil record, it&#039;s spotty at best. The preservation of a fossil is a relatively rare event and requires a specific set of circumstances. They fact that fossils are not found does not disprove the existence of a species.
   Most of the evidence we do have is based on genetics. In the 80&#039;s we didn&#039;t have the technology we do today as far as mapping genomes. We now have working models of inheritance and mutation that clearly demonstrate natural selection.
 Just because we don&#039;t have the ability to fully answer all aspects of a theory does not make the theory wrong. This theory involves changes that take place over millions of years humans have not been around long enough to observe this. We have how ever been able to observe changes within spices that support the theory. 
The theory of evolution does not seek to disprove God. It only strives to understand how.&lt;br&gt;&lt;b&gt;References : &lt;/b&gt;&lt;br&gt;I&#039;m a scientist. (and that does not nessicarily mean I do not believe in God)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You went on-line and looked for a bunch of people to tell you what to hear. Most of the quotes you have are from the 80&#39;s. The theories can seem to be based on faith if you don&#39;t understand the math and science behind them. They are fairly abstract concepts but no one is claiming that they are fact. Just because all the details are unknown does not make a theory untrue it just means no one has figured it out yet. That&#39;s how science works when we have a way to explain it we do, until then we don&#39;t know.<br />
As for the fossil record, it&#39;s spotty at best. The preservation of a fossil is a relatively rare event and requires a specific set of circumstances. They fact that fossils are not found does not disprove the existence of a species.<br />
   Most of the evidence we do have is based on genetics. In the 80&#39;s we didn&#39;t have the technology we do today as far as mapping genomes. We now have working models of inheritance and mutation that clearly demonstrate natural selection.<br />
 Just because we don&#39;t have the ability to fully answer all aspects of a theory does not make the theory wrong. This theory involves changes that take place over millions of years humans have not been around long enough to observe this. We have how ever been able to observe changes within spices that support the theory.<br />
The theory of evolution does not seek to disprove God. It only strives to understand how.<br /><b>References : </b><br />I&#39;m a scientist. (and that does not nessicarily mean I do not believe in God)</p>
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		<title>By: stevenB</title>
		<link>http://www.soundrecordingservices.co.uk/sound-recording-london/is-evolution-really-scientific-reasoning-from-the-scriptures/comment-page-1#comment-177</link>
		<dc:creator>stevenB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Aug 2007 13:26:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.soundrecordingservices.co.uk/sound-recording-london/is-evolution-really-scientific-reasoning-from-the-scriptures#comment-177</guid>
		<description>This isn&#039;t a question, it&#039;s a testimonial.

And a very outdated one at that.  Your citations reference issues that science HAS answered long ago with experiments, no less.  The rest falls into the category of &quot;personal opinion&quot;.  Opinions are fine, we&#039;ve all got them, but you&#039;re way off the mark trying to argue for creationism (or ID) based upon such old, and easily falsifiable views.

Besides, you&#039;re assuming that the views expressed by the authors you cite, were roundly accepted at the times of their publications.  They were not.  Also, some of the sources are not (and were not, even back then) regarded as the best possible.

In short, the ideas you cite are dated, were &quot;weak&quot; when they were made, and are essentially of no relevance today.  I&#039;m too tired to write more.&lt;br&gt;&lt;b&gt;References : &lt;/b&gt;&lt;br&gt;I&#039;m a scientist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This isn&#39;t a question, it&#39;s a testimonial.</p>
<p>And a very outdated one at that.  Your citations reference issues that science HAS answered long ago with experiments, no less.  The rest falls into the category of &quot;personal opinion&quot;.  Opinions are fine, we&#39;ve all got them, but you&#39;re way off the mark trying to argue for creationism (or ID) based upon such old, and easily falsifiable views.</p>
<p>Besides, you&#39;re assuming that the views expressed by the authors you cite, were roundly accepted at the times of their publications.  They were not.  Also, some of the sources are not (and were not, even back then) regarded as the best possible.</p>
<p>In short, the ideas you cite are dated, were &quot;weak&quot; when they were made, and are essentially of no relevance today.  I&#39;m too tired to write more.<br /><b>References : </b><br />I&#39;m a scientist.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. Zwink</title>
		<link>http://www.soundrecordingservices.co.uk/sound-recording-london/is-evolution-really-scientific-reasoning-from-the-scriptures/comment-page-1#comment-176</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. Zwink</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Aug 2007 13:15:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.soundrecordingservices.co.uk/sound-recording-london/is-evolution-really-scientific-reasoning-from-the-scriptures#comment-176</guid>
		<description>first of all, i didnt read all of your quotes, but as an answer yo your general question the scientific method is followed, the observations that support evolution are mostly from fossil records and genetical data research projects like the genographic project.

fossil species are classified by race and age, eventhough there are still many gaps or so called &#039; missing links &#039;  in the tree of species, many connections between older species and newer species have been.

secondly, evolution has been observed in fruitflies. fruitflies have a very large lifespan, if you have one single tribe of them. split the tribe in two, then feed the one cornstarch as food, and the other fructose (fruit sugars). the flies will take about 50 generations (a month or 2) to adapt perfectly to the new foodsource. once they have done so hte interesting fact comes up, that a member of the now fructose sugar tribe, will not be able o breed with a member ofthe cornstarch tribe.

proving that the adaptation has made the species incompatible.

as for religion, thats a toughy, most religious people try to disprove or discredit many scientific theories without having much basis of doing so, some religious people completely shun all scientific progress simply because they feel the bible reads other wise, as others try to mend the gap between science and religion. there is a large stream of religious people that see god as the why evolution as the how, life was created.&lt;br&gt;&lt;b&gt;References : &lt;/b&gt;&lt;br&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>first of all, i didnt read all of your quotes, but as an answer yo your general question the scientific method is followed, the observations that support evolution are mostly from fossil records and genetical data research projects like the genographic project.</p>
<p>fossil species are classified by race and age, eventhough there are still many gaps or so called &#39; missing links &#39;  in the tree of species, many connections between older species and newer species have been.</p>
<p>secondly, evolution has been observed in fruitflies. fruitflies have a very large lifespan, if you have one single tribe of them. split the tribe in two, then feed the one cornstarch as food, and the other fructose (fruit sugars). the flies will take about 50 generations (a month or 2) to adapt perfectly to the new foodsource. once they have done so hte interesting fact comes up, that a member of the now fructose sugar tribe, will not be able o breed with a member ofthe cornstarch tribe.</p>
<p>proving that the adaptation has made the species incompatible.</p>
<p>as for religion, thats a toughy, most religious people try to disprove or discredit many scientific theories without having much basis of doing so, some religious people completely shun all scientific progress simply because they feel the bible reads other wise, as others try to mend the gap between science and religion. there is a large stream of religious people that see god as the why evolution as the how, life was created.<br /><b>References : </b></p>
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		<title>By: eclomaxkiwi</title>
		<link>http://www.soundrecordingservices.co.uk/sound-recording-london/is-evolution-really-scientific-reasoning-from-the-scriptures/comment-page-1#comment-175</link>
		<dc:creator>eclomaxkiwi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Aug 2007 13:02:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.soundrecordingservices.co.uk/sound-recording-london/is-evolution-really-scientific-reasoning-from-the-scriptures#comment-175</guid>
		<description>Taking stuff out of context and then claiming it as proof is much worse than admitting weaknesses in theories. 

Evolution is a theory and always has been and will remain so until a proof is provided. That is why it is called the theory of evolution. That is how it should be taught. 

Creationism claims to be a fact and always has been although the facts have had to be changed in small measure over the ensuing millennia to suit contemporary knowledge. Creationism also leaves an awful lot out of the equation. 

All things bright and beautiful, All cancers great and small. Is that what is taught to kids? No, it&#039;s creatures, because they&#039;re nice fluffy things. So what happened to the creation of nasty things like cancers and creepy crawlies and the misshapen things that die as soon as they are born. Were these created by a loving God? 

Be honest - both of these ideas are theories, neither have been proved. The only difference is that Science sets out that theories have to be proved, and Religion says they have to be believed.  You takes your choice, whatever you feel happiest about. It doesn&#039;t matter, the world will still turn, which is something science has proved and religion didn&#039;t bother to mention.&lt;br&gt;&lt;b&gt;References : &lt;/b&gt;&lt;br&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Taking stuff out of context and then claiming it as proof is much worse than admitting weaknesses in theories. </p>
<p>Evolution is a theory and always has been and will remain so until a proof is provided. That is why it is called the theory of evolution. That is how it should be taught. </p>
<p>Creationism claims to be a fact and always has been although the facts have had to be changed in small measure over the ensuing millennia to suit contemporary knowledge. Creationism also leaves an awful lot out of the equation. </p>
<p>All things bright and beautiful, All cancers great and small. Is that what is taught to kids? No, it&#39;s creatures, because they&#39;re nice fluffy things. So what happened to the creation of nasty things like cancers and creepy crawlies and the misshapen things that die as soon as they are born. Were these created by a loving God? </p>
<p>Be honest &#8211; both of these ideas are theories, neither have been proved. The only difference is that Science sets out that theories have to be proved, and Religion says they have to be believed.  You takes your choice, whatever you feel happiest about. It doesn&#39;t matter, the world will still turn, which is something science has proved and religion didn&#39;t bother to mention.<br /><b>References : </b></p>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://www.soundrecordingservices.co.uk/sound-recording-london/is-evolution-really-scientific-reasoning-from-the-scriptures/comment-page-1#comment-174</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Aug 2007 12:36:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.soundrecordingservices.co.uk/sound-recording-london/is-evolution-really-scientific-reasoning-from-the-scriptures#comment-174</guid>
		<description>There are lots of questions about the details of evolution.  But not about the basic idea that life started out simple and became more complex.  Dinosaurs and man did not walk the Earth together.

But, as you point out, that doesn&#039;t mean evolution, broadly stated, is inconsistent with faith.  Nothing in science denies the existence of a Creator who designed us and watches over us today.

It just says that, if they exist, they started the process with a Bang 13 billion years ago, and used some sort of evolution as a tool.

Here&#039;s a good website from a scientist whose faith is strong:

http://www.reasons.org/&lt;br&gt;&lt;b&gt;References : &lt;/b&gt;&lt;br&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are lots of questions about the details of evolution.  But not about the basic idea that life started out simple and became more complex.  Dinosaurs and man did not walk the Earth together.</p>
<p>But, as you point out, that doesn&#39;t mean evolution, broadly stated, is inconsistent with faith.  Nothing in science denies the existence of a Creator who designed us and watches over us today.</p>
<p>It just says that, if they exist, they started the process with a Bang 13 billion years ago, and used some sort of evolution as a tool.</p>
<p>Here&#39;s a good website from a scientist whose faith is strong:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.reasons.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.reasons.org/</a><br /><b>References : </b></p>
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		<title>By: njdevil</title>
		<link>http://www.soundrecordingservices.co.uk/sound-recording-london/is-evolution-really-scientific-reasoning-from-the-scriptures/comment-page-1#comment-173</link>
		<dc:creator>njdevil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Aug 2007 11:57:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.soundrecordingservices.co.uk/sound-recording-london/is-evolution-really-scientific-reasoning-from-the-scriptures#comment-173</guid>
		<description>its too much to read and from the title im going to go say to post it in the religion forum&lt;br&gt;&lt;b&gt;References : &lt;/b&gt;&lt;br&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>its too much to read and from the title im going to go say to post it in the religion forum<br /><b>References : </b></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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